Ismaili.NET - Heritage F.I.E.L.D.

It turns out that Alnaz has no role in the publication and a minimal role in the distribution of the KIZ Farman book series. The reason he was included in the lawsuit seems to be due to a confusion on Mr Sachedina's part.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

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Jiwa #145 - #178:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. Now, turning to Exhibit C in your...Mr. Tajdin's original affidavit, this is the Golden Edition that you were involved in?
A. Yes.
Q. And have you been involved in the printing of this book?
A. No, I have not.
Q. Have you been involved in the distribution of the book?
A. Yes.
Q. How many of these books were printed?
A. I don't know.
Q. How many have you distributed?
A. I think I have distributed about 80.
Q. Eighty?
A. Yes.
Q. And you distributed these, I take it, by your LISTSERV?
A. No.
Q. You didn't distribute this by the LISTSERV?
A. No. The copies that I sold...one mailed to Chicago. I received a personal e-mail from a person that I have communicated with in the past.
Q. Okay.
A. The rest are all personal within the GT A.
Q. Personal in the GTA, so you...friends or relatives or people you know?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And what about your LISTSERV, ILM...you have a LISTSERV, ILM?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. ILM...
A. ILM-net, yes. It is out of University of Manitoba.
Q. And is that something that is a website or it is just something you send out a broadcast e-mail?
A. It is just a broadcast e-mail.
Q. And you distribute the books through that?
A. Not this Golden Edition.
Q. Not the Golden Edition?
A. No.
Q. And some of the earlier books that Mr. Tajdin has, you distributed through your LISTSERV?
A. I have never distributed any through the...other than this one book, I never distributed anything...well, I sent a few to my family in Kenya, but other than that, I have not distributed any over the mail.
Q. Okay.
A. All the books that I distributed are strictly personal. Like, personal meetings, one-to- one. I often deliver them myself.
Q. And the selling price for the book?
A. This Golden Edition is $50.
Q. And the printing price, the cost to you?
A. The cost to me is $50.
Q. The cost to you is $50?
A. Yes. Canadian.
Q. You don't know what the printing price is?
A. I don't know.
Q. And when did you start doing this?
A. I think I got the first batch just before Christmas. Because it was during the Christmas holidays that I visited family and I...yes, I have given them out.
Q. And are you still doing it?
A. I have been too busy lately, so I have not done any lately.
Q. So you have stopped, then?
A. I haven't stopped, but, as I told you, mostly I sell them to personal contacts.
Q. When is the last one you distributed, then, or sold?
A. I think I gave two copies to my brother. He came to pick it up from me. It is about a month. Maybe three, four, five weeks ago.
Q. Three or four or five weeks ago.
A. Yes.
Q- And before that, the two copies to your brother; before that, when was the last one you sold or distributed or gave away?
A. Before that, after listening to this, one of my client's family picked up, I think, four books from me.
Q. And when was that?
A. I am not sure, but I think this is around the time Haz Imam was here. Around May.
Q. Around the end of May?
A. Yes. Mostly this time I have been selling only to people that I have known and in contact with. So, I normally even when my clients come in I don't normally tell them to buy this. But if they hear from somebody else, they might come and ask me.
Q. And how about the audio bookmark? Did you have any involvement in the production of that?
A. No. I have nothing to do with production.
Q. Nothing to do with the production.
A. Yes.
Q. And any involvement in the collection of the audio speeches?
A. No.
Q. Why does the book not identify a publisher; do you know?
A. You know, Nagib told me once...this was way before. I actually asked him this, I said, 'You know what? There should be some contact on there', because quite often people would tell me they don't know...when I sent to my cousin, my first cousin in Kenya, and so they ask for it but I say I normally don't ship them. I don't even I have time. So I told him, I said, 'You should put at least one number or something', and he says, 'Look, we are doing this...so we don't...' my understanding is Nagib is also selling to people that he know, that he knows at this time. So, it has never been, sort of, an issue that we are going to be mass distribution sort of.
Q. Right.
A. So that was my understanding. You know, it is just being sold...and my understanding also is the reason that he put it into book form is he normally was giving photocopies of it and that was taking too much time and energy and they were being, sort of, not placed properly at people's homes. Loose copies.

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Jiwa #187 - #205:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. Do you pay Mr. Tajdin for the books?
A. I don't pay to Mr. Tajdin. I pick them up from a local distributor here.
Q. Who is the local distributor?
A. I won't name him now.
Q. You won't name him now. And where do you...
A. Mr. Sachedina knows them.
Q. And who do you pay?
A. To him.
Q. If Mr. Sachedina knows them, why wouldn't you tell me?
A. Because most of the stuff that is going on in the affidavits is becoming public on the websites. There is a new website that has opened recently. So, people do get harassed. Even I get harassed. So that is the reason.
Q. I see. Well, you...
A. I haven't paid him yet. I owe him for the 50 books...for the 96, I believe, I picked up. I haven't even collected the monies, because most of them are my family and friends.
Q. I see. So, 96 books, you haven't collected the money. And of the 96, you have distributed 80...
A. About 80 I have distributed.
Q. So you probably have 16 left then?
A. About 16 or so, yes. I mean, I haven't counted but it is in that range. I have collected some money, but not all.
Q. So your evidence is you have not sold the books over the web?
A. No.
Q. So, when I show you this...let's see. Excuse me. I am going to show you Exhibit 14. That is not you selling the book on the web; that is Ismaili.net ?
A. Well, this is Ismaili.net .
Q. Right, so you have not...
A. I have no connection with Ismaili.net .
Q. And you haven't sold them through the ILM-net?
A. Through ILM-net I put this brochure on as advertising, but frankly I don't have enough time and I primarily have been giving it only to family and friends.
Q. So you have put that brochure on the ILM-net?
A. ILM-net, yes.
Q. The ILM-net, you have put that brochure on?
A. Yes.
Q. So you have advertised the book on the 'net?
A. Yes, I have. No, not on the 'net. You can't call it the web. ILM-net is...
Q. Through electronic e-mail distribution, let me put it that way.
A. Let me put it this way: ILM-net is a group of, if I can say, friends or Ismailis that I admit. So you cannot become a member, even if you are an Ismaili, just like this. So it is like me sitting at home with my friends. So it is a restricted ILM-net.
Q. Restricted Internet circulation; would that be fair?
A. Yes. I only admit them if I do; otherwise I don't admit them. So nobody can join in automatically.
Q. Are you involved at all in Ismaili.net?
A. No, I am not.
Q. You are not an editor of it?
A. I have nothing to do with it. don't even have time if I wanted to.

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Sachedina #638 - #639:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. ...Now, here I read in number 28. This is something which I have always had this question in my mind, that you seem to think that Mr. Jiwa operates a website. And I was surprised to read that. Were you thinking that he's co-operating my website or was it another website?
A. I think -- I didn't know about this. You told me that.
Q. I told you that Mr. Jiwa is operating a website?
A. Yes. Yes. No, you said to me in your email when you were trying to remove the book from the website --

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Sachedina #642:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. Mr. Sachedina, I never wrote that Mr. Jiwa. Can you bring this --
A. Yes. Am I allowed to --

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Sachedina #647-650:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. Okay. I'm talking about the fact that you're mentioning Mr. Jiwa's website. Which website --
A. It's your website. I'm talking about your website.
Q. No, but what you are writing here, 'operated by Mr. Tajdin and Alnaz'?
A. Yes, because -- I am trying to explain to you, Nagib Tajdin, that the letter -- the email you sent me -- first you said to me the book has been removed from the website.
Q. Yes.
A. Your website. And then you said to me -- then I complained to you that the book is still being advertised and there is still a thread there on the website because it's still being advertised. So you said to me, 'Shafik, don't worry,' and 'I have spoken to Alnaz Jiwa, who will ensure that this will be taken care of.'
Q. Okay, can we have in the undertaking that I need a copy of the email?
MR. GRAY: We'll get you a copy of that email.
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Sachedina #653 - #663:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. Did you not tell me to tell Alnaz not to write these things he was writing about, the farman book and the Constitution and all those things?
A. I -- sorry. Nagib, I am not aware of that conversation --
Q. You don't remember?
A. -- because I don't know Alnaz Jiwa at all. It's the first time today formally that I've actually met Alnaz Jiwa.
Q. Okay. Can we agree then, can we agree, would you agree -- is this the way to ask the question? Would you agree that if in this undertaking you bring the email and it doesn't say that I will ask Mr. Jiwa to remove from his website, there has never been a question of Mr. Jiwa having a website and this conversation which you are saying?
A. I didn't know whether he -- I thought he was connected with the website because if he could do what you gave him instructions from the website, I presumed he's involved with the website. That's the only connection I have.
Q. Is this why his name was put on the lawsuit?
A. He has -- he was part of this, he was involved with this, and I --
Q. Part of the publication?
A. I think that all the people who were involved in the sense that they were known, were people who are engaged with this website. And because Alnaz I think also had posted on the website a thing that he said that I have -- you know, after the announcement was made, he had a very long email saying that --
Q. Okay. So you are referring to his email list?
A. Yes.
Q. What's posted on his email list, not on his website?
A. Well, to me, it's electronic and -- all of this, from my point of view, is a methodology of --
Q. Mr. Sachedina, then on the lawsuit it says the same thing. But the Imam, who is a graduate from Harvard, he knows the difference between an email list and a website. But it says that Mr. Jiwa is operating a website; isn't it true?
A. I don't think I've said to you this website, because it's your website in which he has been associated. So he obviously has connection with the website. So to me he is involved with the website.
Q. So if this email that you will produce as an undertaking doesn't say this, you will accept that it's not there; right?
A. As I said to you, I don't have the words here.
MR. GRAY: If the email doesn't say it, then it doesn't say it. We'll accept that.
BY MR. TAJDIN:
Q. Yes. Because for the moment I am hearing that I have written that Mr. Jiwa had a website?
A. No. No. I didn't say that Mr. Jiwa -- as I said, you said in your email that when I complained to you that the book is still being advertised and there is still a thread there, you said to me -- you sent me an email to say that 'I have asked Alnaz Jiwa, who will actually deal with this matter and make sure that there is no reference to this.' So immediately I realized that and you and Alnaz are involved with this website.
Q. Okay. So let's have the email which will prove conclusively that it is not right, and we can all --
MR. GRAY: Or that it is right, as the case may be.
MR. TAJDIN: Yes. And if it is right, I will make my apologies to Mr. Sachedina. And I hope also --
MR. GRAY: We'll look forward to that.
MR. TAJDIN: And vice-versa, I hope; right?
MR. GRAY: Well, it's --
MR. TAJDIN: I guess this means no.
THE DEPONENT: Well, it's my best recollection. I wish I hadn't got -- but I haven't got the papers here, so.