Gray knows that the Lawsuit will end if the Imam says in person 'Nagib Stop.', yet he tried many times to find alternatives to producing the Imam. None of his alternatives seem to show that he has access to the Imam.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

---

N. Tajdin #134 - #140:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. So, if it is actually from the Aga Khan, you accept that that, in fact, ends the lawsuit. If it really is from the Aga Khan, you no longer have consent to do what you are doing?
A. If the Aga Khan confirmed directly in person that he has written this letter, there is no lawsuit.
Q. Right. You will stop...you confirm, and it is your view that the Aga Khan has the absolute and unfettered right to withdraw any consent he may have given?
A. The Aga Khan can withdraw any consent to anyone at any time.
Q. Right. And even if he had given any consent previously, or anything he may have said previously...
A. Well, from the time he gives an instruction, it has to be followed.
Q. Right.
A. This is the tenet of our faith.
Q. So, if he has withdrawn his consent now, that is the end of the matter?
A. If he tells me, face to face, 'Nagib, stop', that is the end of the matter.
Q. Right. It doesn't matter what happened in 1992 or 1998, or any time?
A. It doesn't matter. If today, he tells me face to face, 'Nagib, stop', I will stop.
Q. But if the letter is genuine, and he has told you in writing to stop, you would also stop?
A. If the letter is genuine, and he tells me, 'This is a letter which I have composed and signed', I will accept.

---

N. Tajdin #236 - #239:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. So, a matter of this importance, when you are asserting forgery, you are not going to produce for me to review, or for my expert to review, the original of either this letter, Exhibit 5, or the original of Exhibit 3?
A. No. I will not, because your client is...if it is the Aga Khan, he can tell me, 'I have signed it and the matter is closed'. We do not need expertise.
Q. well, you might...
A. You don't need a counter-expert. I am really surprised. Why do you need to see the original of the forged letter? You ask the Aga Khan. He is your client.
Q. I have asked the Aga Khan.
A. So, let him tell me that the letter is not forged, and I will accept it.
Q. He has told you in writing, the letter is not forged.
A. Well, this...
Q. And you don't accept that. You might expect that he might be a little annoyed that you have accused all of his various...
A. Mr. Brian, by saying that this letter is forged, I am protecting the Aga Khan. Come on, he cannot be angry at me. He should be happy at me that at least, I am trying to protect his interests. In this whole file, I am the only one trying to protect his interests. Come on.

---

N. Tajdin #248.
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. Right. So, is it not the case that he can...the Aga Khan, His Highness, can give you instructions in writing? You accept that he has to be able to give instructions in writing, doesn't he not?
A. I would accept his writing if they are not forged.
Q. Right. Okay. But there are 15 million Ismailis?
A. Yes.
Q. He cannot possibly meet all of them, can he?
A. There is only one lawsuit against a Murid of the Imam in 1400 years. Surely, he can meet five minutes that person and say, 'I have signed', but he is not doing it because he has not signed those letters.
Q. But he cannot meet all 15 million Ismailis. He has to operate by sending things by writing?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you agree with that?
A. This kind of...
Q. He generally has to operate by sending information in writing?
A. Yes. And this problem has never occurred before. It is once in a lifetime, once in 1400 years.

---

N. Tajdin #267:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. I see. So, because the first one was forged, everything else you received from the Aga Khan's office must be forged?
A. No. Everything that says that the first one has been written by the Aga Khan is forged.

---

N. Tajdin #398 - #404:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. But you agree with me already that if he gives you a clear indication in writing, which you understand or believe to be from the Aga Khan, you will stop doing it?
A. At this point, anything in writing will be questioned.
Q. You will question anything in writing?
A. Yes, because there are so many forgeries in this file that I will not accept a letter.
Q. You won't accept a single thing that comes from the Aga Khan in writing?
A. Not in contradiction to what the instruction he has given.
Q. So, no matter what it says in writing, you won't accept it? No matter how many times he writes to you? No matter how many people...
A. If the Aga Khan writes to me, it has to be proven that he is the one, because up to now, in this file, there is not even one that I can see which is in the Aga Khan's style, his real signature. The content is always questionable, and I understand, you are not familiar with the Aga Khan's way, but I have been studying it for 30 years. The Ismaili knows, this kind of letter are never written by the Aga Khan.
Q. If I got 50 people who swore that they saw the Aga Khan sign the thing telling you to stop, you wouldn't accept that?
A. If the Aga Khan tells me, yes, I will stop.
Q. No, I am telling you, if you got in writing, from 50 different people, that they had seen the Aga Khan sign a document saying that he did not consent, you wouldn't accept that?
A. Mr. Gray, you can bring me a million people. Because the Aga Khan has given the instruction to me, he is the only one who can tell me these instructions are no longer valid. No other
people can tell me that.
Q. No person, but...yes, I understand that, but what I am suggesting to you is, if the Aga Khan tells you in writing not to do it, you won't accept it, even if a million people confirm that
that is the Aga Khan's writing?
A. Even if ten million people, because that is not the point. It is beside the point.

---

N. Tajdin #415 - #418:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. So, you don't want to examine Mr. Gleason to see if there was somebody who looked like the Aga Khan appeared? You don't want to ask him...
A. There is no need for that. I was not there.
Q. You are not going to show him a photo of the Aga Khan, and say, 'Was the Aga Khan there? Is this the person you saw?'
A. I would not do that, because this would be meaningless. If the Aga Khan has made this lawsuit, let him come and say for one minute, 'Nagib, stop', and I will stop. There is no need for this Gleason and notary, letters, and he would not even need someone to forge his signature if he was behind this.
Q. What if the Aga Khan doesn't want to see you, because you have asserted forgery? Has that ever occurred to you that he might not want to see someone who is asserting forgery against all of his employees, and against his secretariat, and against the secretariat of Prince Amyn? Has that not occurred to you that he might not want to see you for that reason?
A. Mr. Gray, I think he would be very happy to see me, because I am trying to protect his interests, not mine. And there is no accusation against the Aga Khan. I have never insulted him.
Q. And what about the precedent of giving an interview or an audience with somebody who is asserting criminal activities on behalf of his own staff? What about that precedent? Do you think that is a good precedent for him?
A. Well, I would not comment to you. You know, in North America, there are enough cases of corporation where people on the top have been betraying the shareholders, so let's not go into this, please.

---

N. Tajdin #450 - #451:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. ...and that somehow, now, having received the book, and the lawsuit having occurred, and the announcement by the International Leaders Forum having occurred twice, and two letters having been sent to you purportedly from the Aga Khan, and purporting to have been forged, and you have now asserted widely that they are forged, it has been widely circulated, and you are telling me that the Aga Khan, His Highness, would not step forward to stop this, if, in fact, he had not authorized it?
A. I would tell you exactly the same thing, if he was behind this case. For sure, he would step in to stop this case. He would tell me, 'Nagib, stop. I don't want you to print, and I will say there is no need for a lawsuit'.
Q. So...
A. I will stop...

---

N. Tajdin #470 - #476:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. So, you have put this settlement offer on the record in your other motion, haven't you?
A. Mr. Gray, a follower doesn't do settlement with his Imam.
Q. Right.
A. It can't happen.
Q. So, when I offered to have you have a meeting with the Imam after you agreed to settle the matter, the case?
A. You wanted me to sign some
Q. Right.
A. ...which were against my faith.
Q. That is why the meeting didn't take place, because you didn't agree to that, right?
A. That is your point of view.
Q. Right?
A. I don't believe in that.
Q. Yes, you don't believe, because you think I don't represent the Aga Khan?
A. I don't believe that the Imam will refuse a two-minute meeting which can avoid to him a lawsuit.

---

Jiwa #125:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. But if we got another affidavit from another person that had seen the Aga Khan, would that convince you?
A. Listen, you can do what you want to do. I won't tell you how to conduct your litigation, sir. You don't tell me how to conduct my defence or what evidence I put in or who to cross-examine. I have told you my position. You have given your evidence as you have.

---

Jiwa #129 - 132:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. And you questioned Mr. Gleason. He has given evidence, hasn't he?
A. Mr. Gray, I have been a keen follower of His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan and...not only him, Sultan Mohammed Shah right back to...right to the prophets. I have read a lot of history. And for me to make judgments...I mean, if you tell me that, you know, if another affidavit comes in, for me to make judgment, I know my Imam how he works, how he operates. Right now, to me, all of this stuff seems odd. They are inconsistent with the constitution. They are inconsistent with the Farmans that he has made. They are inconsistent with our oral tradition of 1,400 years. So I have a hard time believing and accepting.
Q. I understand you have a hard time believing. I think we understand that.
A. Yes.
Q. But, nevertheless, you would accept...you understand that affidavits are often accepted by lawyers everywhere all over the world?
A. And I think you are aware that false affidavits are being filed here and there. It does happen.
Q. I..
A. Excuse me. Courts also routinely get defrauded by people.
Q. And you are suggesting that is what I am doing.
A. No, I am not suggesting. I am saying I am not satisfied.

---

Jiwa #138:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. Can you give me some indication of a motivation why Mr. Gleason would lie?
A. Lawyers get duped by clients every now and then. I think you can look at cases. You can look up reports. If you just look up the Law Society's fraud website, you will be able to see in Ontario about 30, 40 lawyers have been defrauded, essentially based on false ID. Law Society has changed its rules for even doing real estate transactions based on fraud that has been perpetrated. I don't believe that those lawyers are committing fraud. They are victims of fraud.

---

Jiwa #308 - #315:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. There is one more question I wanted to ask you. Is it your position that His Highness has the absolute and unfettered right to withdraw his consent to the publication of these materials at any time?
A. Yes, he does.
Q. And so if he, in fact, has withdrawn his consent now or at any time since the lawsuit started, that is the end of the matter, regardless of what might have happened in 1992?
A. Yes. You know what? If His Highness personally desires to stop everything, it just stops. He is the boss.
Q. Right. Whether he gives that to you generally in writing or whether it is in person...
A. Generally, no, as I said earlier...
Q. You don't want to accept it in writing but...
A. No. I would accept in writing. The problem that I have right now is this issue of whether...for me, I have a grave concern that he has been misled. It has happened in the past. To you it might sound, 'Oh, well, this is...' but it has happened in the past. So, I would...I am hesitant to accept it in writing. Your e-mail said that if you don't accept it, he wants to pursue with the litigation. So, he has repeatedly told us that if we have any concerns, we can discuss with him. He has told us this. He says, 'I am here to guide my Jamats'. He says, 'Ninety percent of my time should be spent for the Jamats', so we are entitled to...he is like our father. He is not a CEO of a corporation. He is like our father and we are entitled to...if I put it another way. We are entitled to beg him to allow his Farmans to be distributed to the Jamats because he wants the Jamats to be guided. So I am entitled to make a plea to him as a Pir. He is our current Pir as well as actually I think it might even be in the constitution that he is the current Pir, so I am entitled to take our pleas to him and, you know, he
is our spiritual advisor. It is just like Jesus is to Christians.
Q. Right, I understand.
A. So at this moment and this state in time, this litigation is completely contradictory to what he has been telling us all along. This is why I appreciate that you are counsel and I appreciate your comments on that, but I have grave concerns. And so as much as you say I have unfettered...I mean, if he tells me to jump out of this window I won't think think about it. And I hope I can maintain that faith; right? So if he tells us and if I am satisfied this is him, I will do it.
Q. And even if it is in writing, if he tells you that it is not to be done, you will do it? Whether in writing or in person; as long as you are satisfied...
A. That it is from him.
Q. Right.
A. Absolutely. There is no question about it.
Q. And that vitiates, if you will, or cancels or annuls any prior consents that may have been given in 1992 or at any other time?
A. Mr. Gray, it would make no difference whether there is consent or not. He says no, the matter is over.

Defendants present some alternatives that the Imam had to make them stop their activities without needing to meet them.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

---

Jiwa #122 - #124:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. Well, is it your evidence that you won't accept...the Aga Khan has not consented that the Aga Khan has not authorized this lawsuit unless you speak with him in person? Is that your evidence?
A. My evidence...you know what? don't need to speak to him in person. I don't need to speak with him in person. He has, despite the evidence to the contrary, he has very simple ways of dealing with these issues. And that leads me to believe that, you know, he is not behind this litigation.
Q. But you don't need to speak to him in person.
A. I don't need to...
Q. And so you would accept something in writing?
A. Writing at this moment is becoming difficult to accept. But I have told you that he has got quite a few...at least two other alternatives to stop this stuff or stop the publication of Farmans and he has chosen not to do
so. That leads me to believe that he is not behind this.

---

Sachedina #433 - #439:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. But the concern is, as I understand, it seems to be that whether they are official or unofficial, he doesn't want them to be outside of jamat khanas distributed either by email, by photocopies, by books?
A. That's something he doesn't wish.
Q. He doesn't you say?
A. Except from the described process.
Q. And yet since 1997 at least, perhaps earlier, as you said, but at least since 1997, he frequently told you that he's concerned about this, would you agree with me that he had an excellent opportunity when he went around the world to make sure that the jamats doesn't engage in this activity. He never did; correct?
A. That's the Imam's decision --
Q. Yes. I understand.
A. -- what the process is. It's up to him.
Q. I'm not asking you why he didn't do.
A. Yes.
Q. Of course you're right, its his prerogative. What I'm telling you is despite that he went around the world, he never mentioned any farman anywhere to say don't engage in this activity. You are aware, aren't you, that he has, for instance, said, 'I don't want you dealing drugs, I don't want you smoking drugs, I don't want you to grow drugs, I don't want you to transport' -- he said that in jamat khana?
A. But those are in the context of a farman.
Q. I understand. But he said that. So he's able to say in the farman and stop this; would you agree with me?
A. If he wished to do that. That is the prerogative of the Imam to do what he wants to do and say what he wants to say, if he wished to say, whether in his people whether that's something he wants to say to the jamat in public. But this is an institutional issue.

Sachedina#448 - #450:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa. (until reporter appeals)
Q. And it says, the second sentence: 'In order that there is absolute clarity that the legal steps have been undertaken is the sad last resort.' Right? Would you agree with me that this is not a 'sad last resort'?
A. It was from Imam's perspective a 'sad last resort' because he tried in many ways for this not to go to this level.
Q. I just told you that if the Imam has been concerned, if he has been concerned about these activities, and according to you since at least 1997, he has a number of occasions -- for instance, 1998, July, he amended the Constitution and he could have made it abundantly clear that nobody but the Imam can do this. Number 2, and I just explained to you that he could have made the farmans as he went around during Golden Jubilee because this has been a concern for a long time, as you've been saying. So would you agree with me that the sad last resort is not true?
A. Let me tell you and maybe --
Q. Yes or no?
A. It is a --
--- The reporter appeals.
MR. GRAY: Let him answer the --
THE DEPONENT: I have a right to explain. 'Sad last resort' because for the last ten years, since after -- from 1998, after my visit with Nagib, and, in fact, the last publications of Nagib, nothing, as far as I'm aware, there was no publication. This issue only arose because of this publication that was produced.
MR. GRAY: The Golden --
THE DEPONENT: So there was Golden. This is the book that has come out. This is the book in question --

Defendant Nagib Tajdin is often in close proximity but never addresses the Imam. The defendants are not insisting to meet the Imam, they are insisting on getting any authentic direct instruction from the Imam so that they know whether to continue or not.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

---

N. Tajdin #419 - #428:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. So, it is a privilege to have an audience with the Aga Khan, isn't it?
A. It is a privilege for anyone, but this is not the purpose. I am not looking for an audience for an audience. I have written, in the beginning of January, I need an audience to get instruction.
Q. Have you ever had an audience with the Aga Khan?
A. No. Yes. I have gone to Mehmani.
Q You went to Mehmani?
A. Yes, it was a long time ago.
Q. When was that?
A. 1978.
Q. And at that Mehmani in 1978, did you present the fruit and nuts to him?
A. I think there were more than fruit and nuts. There was a rosary, and there were a few other things.
Q. Right, right, okay. So, you had a Mehmani?
A. I had a Mehmani.
Q. How long did that Mehmani last in 1978?
A. A few seconds.
Q. A few seconds, okay. So, other than that, you haven't had any audience with His Highness?
A. I have never tried to...
Q. No.
A. ...up to January 4th.
Q. Yes, now you have been trying since January 4 to have an audience with him?
A. Yes.

---

N. Tajdin #516:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. Did you try to bring your books to show to the Aga Khan while he was in Toronto?
A. No. I went to the hotel, but not to try to give him the book.
Q. Did you go to the hotel, and the Royal York, where he was, to try and give him the books?
A. No.
Q. Did you try to meet him at the hotel?
A. I haven't tried to meet him. I was standing there with other Ismailis to see him.
Q. You were in the hotel?
A. And if he would have called me, I would have gone.
Q. But you were in the hotel lobby?
A. I was in the hotel lobby, and I was in the hotel lobby the previous time when he came, the previous of the previous time also.
Q. Did you follow him around the world, trying to see him?
A. I go around the world because I have a website. I take pictures. I take photos. Sometimes he is there for a day, two days. Sometimes we are very close. I could talk to him, but I don't do these things. We have a code of conduct that tells that we cannot approach the Imam unless he accepts.
Q. All right. You follow him around, but you don't speak to him in the...
A. Never. Never.

---

Sachedina #630-#631:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. On paragraph 20, you say: 'Mr. Tajdin responded that he would accept this to be His Highness's wish only if he received instructions directly from His Highness.' Is this correct?
A. That's what you told me.
Q. I agree I told you that. I just want to make sure that it's not changed?
A. Yes. Directly -- from my language, directly is the Imam. Imam of the Time, if he tells you, then you will take instructions from him.
Q. Okay, that's fine.
A. And that's the way you have described to me.

Bhaloo and Sachedina did not discuss their Affidavits with the Imam.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

---

Sachedina #28 - #33:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. Now, you said you have reviewed Mr. Bhaloo's Affidavit?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you review it when it was drafted right initially, or after it was sworn by him?
A. The Affidavit itself?
Q. Yes.
A. I had seen a situation from before, what he was saying in his own Affidavit, and it was actually the counsel who actually sent me the final copy of it.
Q. After it was signed?
A. Yes. Of course I have seen a draft before that, but it actually was signed by -- and I was sent, really, the copy of it.
Q. Now, your Affidavit as well as Mr. Bhaloo's Affidavit, the draft version, did you review that with His Highness?
A. I didn't review it myself. I didn't review it. The counsel had, but I certainly didn't personally give it to His Highness myself.
Q. And did you discuss with His Highness the contents of your Affidavit or Mr. Bhaloo's Affidavit?
A. Not with him personally.

---

Sachedina #830 - #833:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. Okay. Have you seen Mr. Bhaloo's Affidavit before he signed it?
A. Sorry?
Q. Have you seen Mr. Bhaloo's Affidavit before he signs it?
A. Mr. Bhaloo's Affidavit before he signed this? I saw a version of it.
Q. Okay. A draft?
A. Yes, there was a draft that was -- he had prepared, but, as I say, he then himself dealt with it because, as I say --
Q. That's fine.
A. It's not my responsibility. But he did say that he was just making sure that I find my -- as far as I'm concerned, my own visit dates and what you have already said is here, now all is in there.

---

Bhaloo #6:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. When this Affidavit was drafted, did you discuss what contents to put in, what to mention, with anybody else?
A. No, I did not.

Mr. Sachedina is the one who asked Mr Bhaloo to be a witness. No word on who decided that Mr Sachedina should be a witness.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

---

Sachedina #25 - #26:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. With respect to this litigation, whose decision was it that you and Mr. Bhaloo should be giving evidence?
A. The decision for -- whose decision it was?
Q. Yes.
A. I realized that some of the facts require Mr. Bhaloo, who was present at only one of the meetings that I know of, and then he was also present, I believe, at the -- or he was in the leadership at the time of one of the other --

Sachedina says that only 2 people were involved in the issuing of the Statement Of Claim: Sachedina and Manji. Sachedina has a hard time pinpointing when the Imam gave the go-ahead to proceed with the Statement of Claim.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

---

Sachedina #515 - #519:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. When did His Highness tell you that he has decided to issue this Statement of Claim?
A. When did?
Q. When did he tell you?
A. In fact, he discussed this matter the -- after the letter was sent, the second letter was sent, he
did speak to me and the president, Mohamed Manji that --
Q. Together?
A. No. He spoke to me and I believe he spoke to Mohamed separately, and then he sent us, you know, from his point of view a message to speak with -- you know, in the sense that there were discussions that we should also discuss amongst ourselves on this matter.
Q. So who discussed?
A. Mohamed and me were only involved, two people, because His Highness wanted to know whether what had happened so far, what are the actions that have happened so far, the fact that these farmans there has been no reaction, that these farmans have not been withdrawn in the sense that these books have not been withdrawn from circulation, so he was concerned.
Q. By the time that you --
A. And he wanted -- sorry. And he wanted to understand whether he continues in this Imam/murid relationship, which is what he wanted to do. And second letter, he felt after the second letter that he had done what is expected of the Imam in his way, and he was rather concerned that there was no action from the other side, from the murids, and he wanted to protect the integrity of his farmans.

---

Sachedina #523 - #527:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. So do you know -- I mean I'm going to ask you as precise as you can be in terms of date or day?
A. I'll try.
Q. Is when did he tell you that he has now decided to issue a Statement of Claim?
A. I think and I can probably -- this letter was in February. I think indications were that he was seriously now, all the avenues were -- he had exhausted the avenues from his perspective, which were that if an imam writes to a murid and a murid does not respond, or at least then went and accused for forgery, that was a serious matter for him. And he felt that if that was the case, then this was a matter of serious concern to him and that to protect the integrity of his works, his moral rights, he wanted to ensure that this, therefore, would have to go where legal recourse would have to come. Because before that we had said, both Mohamed and me, that we would try and resolve this as Imam -- between the Imam and the murid because that was the relationship between the murid and the Imam, that he wanted in the privileged setting to resolve this matter.
Q. Now, I was trying to get --
A. Yes.
Q. -- the date?
A. I think probably towards the end of March or April that he was thinking about -- towards end of March, I think.
Q. That he said he wanted to issue the Claim?
A. Well, that's the time he said, well, look, I think, you know, he would have to deal with it from a legal perspective.

---

Sachedina #766 - #767:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. Mr. Sachedina, the first announcement which we have already talked about was already talking of legal steps?
A. I -- at least not from my --
Q. That was --
A. The first announcement, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't talk about any legal steps at all, at
least in the --

---

Sachedina #771,:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. Okay, I'm just referring to the last sentence where it talks of copyright laws.
MR. GRAY: It says --
THE DEPONENT: Yes, but this practice constitutes a breach of the Ismaili Constitution as well as copyright laws, and appropriate steps have been taken to ensure that the unauthorized circulation of copies of these unauthorized publication ceases.

Gray tried to show that he has spoken to the Aga Khan by producing a group photograph including him and The Aga Khan Taken at the Aga Khan Museum Foundation Ceremony.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

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N. Tajdin #481
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. I am showing you a picture, a photograph.
A. Yes?
Q. Do you recognize anybody in that photograph?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Who do you recognize there?
A. The Aga Khan.
Q. That is the Aga Khan?
A. Yes, it is the...
Q. Who is that next to...do you recognize me there, next to the Aga Khan?
A. Yes.
Q. Does that look like me?
A. Yes.
Q. Brian Gray?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recognize anybody else in the photograph?
A. I think...is that not the architect Maki?
Q. That is the architect, yes.
A. And I think from the back, I see Mohamed Manji.
Q. You see Mohamed Manji behind the Aga there?
A. Yes.
Q. He is the president of the Ismaili Council for Canada?
A. Yes.
Q. And you see the person at the bottom?
A. This is the foundation ceremony of the Jamatkhana Museum, right?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes.
Q. And you see the other person at the left there; do you know who that is?
A. Who is the other person on the left?
Q. The Aga Khan's right, to the left of the photograph.
A. Aga Khan's right.
Q. To the left, next to the architect.
A. who... There is a lady. I am not sure
Q. Yes, I can tell you that is Bev Oda, the Minister of International Cooperation?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Do you recognize her now?
A. Yes, I recognize her.
Q. Okay. So, I am standing next to the Aga Khan...
A. Yes.
Q. ...at the foundation ceremony; am I not?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
A. There are so many pictures of so many people like that. I collect them.
Q. You collect them?
A. If you should not mind, I would like to get a copy.
Q. You can have a copy. I will give you a copy right now.
A. Thank you.
Q. There you go, here is a copy. Now, how do you explain that, if I have not spoken with the Aga Khan, or have access to him? people...
A. Mr. Gray, I can produce you so many
Q. Sorry?
A. I can produce so many people who are in photographs with the Aga Khan who have not spoken to him.
Q. I see.
A. It doesn't mean anything. Come on.
Q. It means nothing?
A. On that occasion, so many pictures were taken, probably a couple of thousand.
Q. Okay.
A. So many people wanted to have a photograph with the Aga Khan.
Q. So, along with the ten million people that won't convince you, a photograph is not going to convince you?
A. A photograph where you stand near the Aga Khan, I could have been standing there. So what?
MR. GRAY: Okay. Can we mark that as the next exhibit? Number 12. It is a photograph of Brian Gray, the Aga Khan, Bev Oda and an unnamed architect.
Q. Maki?
A. Yes.
Q. Yes, Mr. Maki, at the foundation ceremony of the Aga Khan...
A. Museum, Jamatkhana.
Q. ...Museum in Toronto.
A. He is the architect of the museum.
Q. Okay. It was taken around May...at the time of the ceremony in May of 2010?
A. Yes, end of May.
Q. End of May?
A. Yes.

---

Jiwa #126:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. You saw the photograph of me standing next to the Aga Khan? Did you see that photograph?
A. I have seen the photograph.
Q. You think I did not speak to the Aga Khan?
A. You know what? I will not answer that question. You give your evidence if you want to. Put in an affidavit and we can cross-examine you. Right now you have not given any evidence. You are just counsel.

Mr Sachedina admits twice to saying that the Imam thinks in French and speaks in English.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

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Sachedina #252- #257:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. And you told Mr. Tajdin that Imam 'thinks in French, speaks in English, and makes mistakes, so we edit them, we correct them'?
A. That's his words, not mine.
Q. And you never said that?
A. I didn't say about mistakes. What I said was, and I want to really put it on properly, is that Imam himself had told me that when he makes farmans, he makes extempore farmans. And extempore farmans, when he makes them, he thinks in French, and the farmans are made in English. And it is absolutely correct in my view that farmans of any -- from my point of view any Imam from that point of view, the Imam has his right to review those farmans because the spoken word and then text have to be compared and be satisfied that that is what he wished to be released.
Q. Would you agree with me that that's your opinion?
A. No. It is what the Imam has told me personally.
Q. That he what?
A. That he has made -- it's a long tradition absolutely going back through many, many years.
Q. When you say 'many years,' so Sultan also had the same policy as well?
A. I'm not -- I'm talking about this Imam. I wasn't present with the 48th Imam. I was not working for him. But I can only tell you that Imam reviews this material himself for the last many, many years since I have been working, and he releases it only when he is satisfied with it.
Q. Now, do you have any, either a farman -- right? -- or an article in the Constitution that says that the Imam edits farmans or has to edit farmans or has to approve farmans before they are released for distribution?
A. There's a very clear constitutional mandate. If you read article -- the only people that are authorized to do that are constitutional board. If you look at the article, very clearly article 14 of the Constitution, 14.1(c) clearly says that it is only the Imam who -- it's very clear on -- 14.1 article C is absolutely clear.

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Sachedina #263:
Cross-Examination by Mr Jiwa.
Q. I'll come back to that in a second. I just want to focus on the question that I asked you. My question, and I'm going to repeat it again: Is there any article in the Constitution or is there any farman that says before any farman that has been made by the Imam, before it is distributed to the jamats, has to be edited and approved by the Imam? That's my question.
A. Not in the way that you describe.

---

Sachedina #617 - #618:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. Okay, that's fine. I'm referring to tab D of -- 3(d) -- now you have to bear with me. It's the first time that I am doing an examination. And Shafik, honestly, I think in French, I speak in English.
A. Yes.
Q. So sometimes --
A. Thank you very much. I am grateful. That is first time on record somebody can say that. I thought I was the only one saying that.
MR. GRAY: That's okay. I think probably it's the first time Mr. Sachedina has been examined.

Mr Gray tried to establish that the Imam is aging and in bad health. It was refuted by everyone.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

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N. Tajdin #268:
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. I see. Okay. And did you tell this Mr. Ospreay the age of the Aga Khan?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Can you produce for me your instructions to Mr. Ospreay?
A. It was a verbal instruction.
Q. You didn't ask him in writing?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell him...you follow what the Aga Khan...his life, don't you?
A. I follow it very closely.
Q. Very closely. And are you aware of the fact that he had a skiing accident in 2008?
A. Yes, he has had several of those.
Q. He had several accidents in 2008?
A. Yes.
Q. And they were in 2008, weren't they?
A. Yes. In fact, I met, in 2008, or 2009, Dr. Sachedina in Ivory Coast, and he told me that we have fixed completely properly the shoulder of His Highness, and he is like before.
Q. Right. So, you were aware that the skiing accident hurt his shoulder?
A. Yes, I was aware.
Q. And which shoulder was that?
A. Probably the right shoulder.
Q. Right, and are you also aware that the Aga Khan, His Highness, is right-handed?
A. Yes, I am aware.
Q. Okay. Did you tell Mr. Ospreay that His Highness had had a skiing accident in 2008?
A. No, I did not, because he was already back to normal, and that was confirmed to me by Dr. Sachedina in Abidjan during the Golden Jubilee for His Highness.
Q. Did you tell any of the other experts that you retained about the Aga Khan's age?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell any of the other experts about the skiing accident in 2008?
A. No.

---

Jiwa #282 - #284
Cross-Examination by Mr Gray.
Q. I take it that you also follow events...I take it you also follow events in His Highness' life?
A. I do somewhat, yes. But the accident was publicly known. So even if you are not following, you knew.
Q. So you knew?
A. Yes.
Q. You knew there was an accident in 2008?
A. Yes.

---

Sachedina #586 - #599,
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. And the Imam travels extensively; right?
A. Yes.
Q. I would think he travels all the time. I think he mentioned somewhere that he lives in a suitcase or something, or a briefcase. And I remember a very old interview that he sent that he spent so many hours working in a plane, that's why maybe he made this comment. He's also a sportsman; right? He does ski?
A. Yes.
Q. He drives his own car?
A. He loves.
Q. He loves. I have seen his movie with Princess Zahra on a horse. So the horse --
A. That is his hobby. I don't get involved with any of this.
Q. I just want to make sure that we agree that the Imam is in better shape than you and me. If I can refer to that Imam, I was just looking few days ago at the Pamir Mountains and the Imam is climbing the mountain. It looks very fresh. And I think you are 300 meters behind the Imam trying also to go up the same mountain. Is that a university that he's building in the Pamirs?
A. Yes, there is a University of Central Asia, which is the university in that region, in Kyrgstan, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan. It's --
Q. It's a three-country --
A. Three countries.
Q. And it's a mountain university?
A. Under the treaty of --
Q. Okay.
A. Under the treaty between the Imam and the three presidents of the three countries.
Q. There is no choice but to climb the mountain. Because that's where the campus are; right?
A. In remote areas.
Q. In remote areas.
A. In isolated areas.
Q. Very good. Now, he is also a graduate from Harvard, so he's not like the average person --
MR. GRAY: Please stop here a second. I see the reporter is looking for -- off the record.
BY MR. TAJDIN:
Q. So I guess he probably is using some gadget. I saw you were using a Blackberry. Is the Imam also using a Blackberry?
A. I'm not aware of that.
Q. You are not aware if the Imam --
A. Blackberry, I don't know about the Blackberry.
Q. I will not ask his phone number, promise. But he uses some kind of telephone where you can send messages. I understand he send some messages. So he's quite a modern person in that way?
A. He's an Imam of the Time.

---

Sachedina #834 - #839
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. ...So that day we met in Abidjan.
Q. Yes. That was during the Golden Jubilee; right? Right?
A. Yes.
Q. I guess this is a yes. We talked about the Imam, and you said that his shoulder was completely restored. You remember that conversation?
A. You asked me how Hazar Imam was, and I said to you he's fine. And you said is he all right, and I said yes, he's fine.
Q. Did we talk of his shoulder?
A. You talked to me, as I say, about his accident.
Q. Yes.
A. You asked me the question and I responded.
Q. And you said he was fixed now?
A. Right shoulder is a shoulder injury, that's why.

Mr Sachedina helps to establish that despite there being a few thousand Jamatkhanas, the circumstances of the worldwide ismaili Jamat are such that over 80% of ismailis do not have access to Jamatkhanas or to Farmans.

[Note: Extracts of Federal Court Transcripts of Cross-Examinations held August 2010 for Summary Judgement Motions in the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit
Sections starting with N. Tajdin #... Means Nagib Tajdin is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Jiwa #... Means Alnaz Jiwa is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Sachedina #... Means Shafik Sachedina is the one answering questions in the next section
Sections starting with Bhaloo #... Means Aziz Bhaloo is the one answering questions in the next section
]

---

Sachedina #606-#614:
Cross-Examination by Mr Tajdin.
Q. Now, as the head of Jamati Affairs, you have a list of how many jamat khanas there are which are in contact with the Imamat?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately how many?
A. Of the number of murids or in the global number of countries?
Q. No. Jamat khanas.
A. Oh, jamat khanas. Well, we have in excess of nearly over 5,000-7,000 jamat khanas.
Q. 7,000. And some are in remote areas where there are small villages and few people?
A. Absolutely.
Q. So on the average, that would cover about 2, 3 million Ismailis?
A. Well, yes, possibly. Even more.
Q. There are jamat khanas where there are a thousand people that can sit, and there are some where there are a hundred people that can sit; am I right?
A. There are different size of jamat khanas.
Q. Okay. So if we have to be very generous that about 2, 3 million people have access to jamat khanas, would you agree that not all the people who have access to jamat khanas go to jamat khanas?
A. Access to jamat khanas is out of choice of people being able to go because of their lives, whether they are able to go to the jamat khanas, the proximity of the jamat khanas, the distances people have to travel to jamat khanas. So there are many factors that determine for any member of the community to go to jamat khanas. There could be a jamat khana but they can't get to it because of the distance, whatever it may be. There are many reasons for that.
Q. Okay. Out of 15 million Ismailis, if you have 2 or 3 million at the most who have access -- let's say they all go to jamat khanas, would you agree that 80 per cent of the people do not have access to jamat khanas in our community; they live in regions where there are not yet either a jamat khana or --
A. I'm not able to make that judgment to say to you for sure that is the case. But there is a large proportion, and you know that the Imam of the Time has said that there are many places in the world that there are no jamat khanas, which he will at the time -- at the time of the Golden Jubilee it was one of the goals, was to establish jamat khanas in parts of the world where there has been no access to the jamat khanas. And that is his goal. And therefore he -- there are many, many places in that region of the world where there's a large population and they do not have access to jamat khanas.
Q. Okay. Now, would you agree that people who do not have access to jamat khanas do not have access to farmans?
A. Yes, because -- they would not have access simply that there are no structures, even institutional structures, in some of these places.
Q. True.
A. There has been no constitutional bodies in many of these countries. In fact, till today I can tell you most of these countries do not have constitutional bodies.
Q. Yes. In fact, the Imam mentioned in a farman that there are no constitutional bodies in many, many places where Ismaili --
A. In those parts of the world where there are large jamats, there are in some of these countries what I call the jamats that we are mentioning, majority of the jamats do not have jamati institutional structures. You know, I can give you Russia, central Asia, Afghanistan only just started, western China -- all of these places have a large population, but these are areas of the world where jamat khanas have not been established because there are no constitutional bodies or just about beginning to be established. So it's under the constitutional bodies that jamat khanas -- and there are no traditions in some of these places to have jamat khanas.